Doctor Who – Astronaut child might be a Timelord – Regeneration sequence shown!

OMFG! Screw the Day Of The Moon review, we might just have a new Timelord on the scene. Or an old one with a new face. You never know with these Gallifreyans.

The closing scenes of tonight’s Doctor Who episode showed the young girl (previously trapped in an astronaut’s suit) stumbling into an alleyway in New York City. A vagrant notices her, and she tells him she’s dying…but it’s alright, because I can do this…

At which point the girl’s hands start glowing a familiar golden colour, then her face. And then she bursts into a full-on regeneration as the episode ends.


Here at Shout Towers, we’re completely boggled! Steven Moffat hosed us with mad notions about pregnancy and childbirth all the way through the episode. Let’s gather up what we know:

  1. Amy may or may not be pregnant. Even the TARDIS scanner didn’t seem to have a definitive answer when The Doctor secretly scanned her. 
  2. Prior to this, Amy had been joking with The Doctor about being pregnant after travelling in the TARDIS for so long – her baby might have had a “Time head” or something. There was a subtext that the baby might have been conceived in the TARDIS with The Doctor, but I think this is a massive red herring. Probably.
  3. River had yet another interesting moment – after shooting up a bunch of Silents, she turns around and sees Rory, but asks if her old man had seen that. Because he wouldn’t be happy about it. But “old man” could be father or husband, depending on your point of view. It would play to a popular theory that River is Amy’s daughter, and Rory might be the ‘old man’.
  4. Er…let me rewatch the episode and see what else I can pull out of my hat.

So, where has Gallifrey Girl come from? Has the randy Doctor been off creating little Time Children, or is this a last survivor of Gallifrey? If it’s the last one, should we be trying to identify possible Time Lords who might have survived the Time War and made it to Earth?

My mind is blown…need your feedback folks!

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  1. jefft

    ..nearly every ‘who is River’ theory can be applied to the mysterious girl.

    (Dont be fooled by her age. The Doctor’s apparent age has been up and down faster than underwear in a brothel.)


    Rani. (Last seen in E-Space, and I heard some suggestion that The Doctor is heading into some other dimension during this series)

    Jenny. Known to have at least some regenerative powers, and kept alive at the Moff’s request. 

    The Master (Look.. if he can be a snake and live in a Ring for a bit, thats nothing compared to losing a Y chromosome in the wash)



    .. and the list goes on. 

    But: super strong? Not a timelord trait. And why contact the highest authority when in danger?

    What did the Silence want on the moon?


    And lastly, The Doctor as her ‘Old Man’. Father? After THAT snog?


  2. amazinsuphilips

    There’s a hint in the names – Amy Pond and River Song. Current developments make it at least feasible that Amy is River’s mother. River’s timeline is running in the opposite direction to the doctors, which means she’s getting younger as he gets older. Also, the girl hides from the Doctor and co, would it cause a problem if she and River met? Onthe other hand all these clues could just be a big pile of red herrings.

  3. sgreco1970

    Well, I just finished watching the US premiere of ep 2, and log in to find this already here lol. You brits must get it a shade earlier than we do (jealous). Ok, so, wow what a bombshell. This whole episode was so chock full of tidbits and questionable moments, that I will have to watch it a dozen times (expect more posts lol).

    Firstly, we have a seed. A short bit has been seeded into this episode that probably won’t pay off until the end of the series. A little window slides open in a door that otherwise doesn’t contain one, to reveal a one-eyed futuristic woman who declares, “she must be dreaming.” WHAT was that all about? We’ll find out some day, I’m sure. I do hope this entire season doesn’t turn out to just be a dream, that would be stupid and upsetting.

    Secondly, Amy’s pregnant. No she’s not. Oh wait, yes she is. Not sure what’s going on with that, but of course, we’ve seen a photo now, in the little girl’s room, wherein Amy is holding a baby. We’ll presume, possibly erroneously, it is both her baby and the little girl. Fast forward to the end of the episode, the girl is regenerating. While its not a guarantee she’s a time lord, its a good bet she is…or half time lord. Is it possible she and the doctor did “do it?” Or, perhaps the aliens implanted her? Could be REALLY convoluted (I won’t put that past Moffat) and it could be like this: Amy gives birth to River, River gives birth to the little girl (with the doctor as the father). Just thinking about that makes my head hurt.

    So, they have identified themselves as the Silents. Well, let’s think back to River’s first appearance on Doctor Who -Silence in the Library. Were they there? Is she safe inside CAL? Does the Doctor need to eventually return to the library? Time will tell…

    Well, we now know (maybe) why the spaceship in The Lodger was abandoned, as the Doctor’s clever plan routed the aliens from Earth back in the 60’s. Hopefully, thisisn’t the last we’ll have heard on this topic, however, because I for one would like much more clarification of events in the Lodger in regards to the Silents.

    Can this little girl somehow evolve into the old woman on gallifrey who intervenes with Wilf in The End of Time, whose identity remains still unknown?

    I’m very keen to see the next episode, but its also clear it is not a main plot episode which is disappointing. Seems this particular bit of discussion won’t get a fresh infusion of info for some time. I’ll have to rewatch the episode a dozen or so times now, so be on the alert for more tidbits I manage to catch and keep discussing!

  4. sgreco1970

    I GOT IT!!

    The little girl IS a Timelord. …She’s the Doctor. When she finishes regenerating, she’ll be Matt Smith, back from the dead. She was in the spacesuit when she shot and killed the Doctor. The spacesuit, her special lfie support suit built for her by the Silents, absorbs his regeneration energy before he dies. I don’t know how, but it is. And Amy is his mother. And she is the old woman who urges Wilf to take arms, the old woman who covers her face on gallifrey. Somehow. I’m telling you, that’s what all this is about. …maybe

  5. grift

    river explains to the doctor that the suit called the president because it “defaults to the highest authority it could find.” fine, ok. so the little girl is stuck in the space suit, gets scared, the suit dials, and tricky dicky gets woken up at night.

    but wait! the girl tells nixon “i’m scared of the space man,” that a space man told her about “monsters,” that the space man is going to eat her, and even gives directions as to where she’s located. so we can assume she’s not yet in the space suit when she calls the white house or she wouldn’t be afraid of the space man eating her, or be able to look out the window and see the street signs…

    so 1) how is she calling the white house? is the suit just using her voice to get the doctor there? (we know the doctor can’t resist helping children in need) 2) who is the space man? is it the suit? is it someone/thing else? 3) if the space man is the suit, how did it talk to the girl? it doesn’t seem to be sentient.. or at least not that we’ve seen so far, and 4) why did the suit “eat” the girl? did it actually “eat” her or did she climb in? and if she’s so incredibly strong, why didn’t she climb out sooner?

    i’m hoping this is all moffat’s plan and not just him losing track of his story

    1. sgreco1970

      1) they explain there’s a communication device in the suit that “can hack into any system”

      2) I think its the suit itself, river pointed out she thinks it can walk around of its own power.

      3) how did she rip her way out of the suit? When she is in the suit, is she controlling it? that’s the big question. Because if she is, then she could use the suit’s own strength to rip her way out. If she isn’t, then no matter who is inside the suit, its the suit that shot the doctor and cannot be stopped.

      As for the litle girl being told about the monsters by the spaceman, she could actually be referring to the Silents. One kind of spaceman for another, you know?

      I think there’s way more to the silents than we know. I don’t think theyre our enemies, actually. They made a point to say that they don’t seem to do anything, just huddle in corners. They’re not here to lord over us, they’re helping…somehow.

      1. grift

        thanks for trying to answer my questions, but my questions are based on my whole post; they aren’t self-contained.

        1) i know that. the whole point of my first paragraph is that they suggest that the child is not in the space suit… although that depends on who/what is the “space man” she’s referring to. if it’s the space suit then she couldn’t be in the suit when calling the white house. if it’s the silents, or something else, then that makes more sense.

        2) perhaps.. but then she couldn’t be controlling the suit. or maybe you’re right and the girl just calls everything non-human a “space-man” or a “monster”

        3) yea, that’s def what river is trying to figure out, whether or not the suit shot the doctor on its own. although i don’t think it matters. when the suit opens its solar shield, right before the doctor is killed, the doctor says he knows who it is. this could mean, 1) there’s someone inside he knows, or 2) he know the identity of the suit, but either way there is some sentience controlling the suit.

        i have a similar feeling about the silents; they are probably less insidious than the first two episodes make them out to be. possibly more ood than weeping angels. but i guess we’ll find out later.

      2. pirho

        Perhaps you are correct about them, they have been pushing Mankind in the right direction for years.  They influenced us to make the Wheel and fire, who knows what else?  Perhaps the whole industrial revolution was them.

    2. Gerard McGarry

      You might be right about the girl being outside the spacesuit when she first called. When The Doctor went to the place she was being held, wasn’t there a phone on the table, then he looked out the window and saw the street signs “Jefferson…etc”.

      Of course, if she dialled from the telephone in the office, then how did she get a hotline to the president?

      The spacesuit itself was revealed to be incredibly advanced – many different types of alien tech according to The Doctor and River – including a full life support system. If the Silents were slowly evolving the human race to be able to create such a suit, where did the advanced alien tech come from? (Kind of like how did NASA get their hands on impregnable dwarf star bricks for their prison?)

      Not sure how the suit would have communicated with the child, but I’d suggest it was a Silent who was explaining that the suit would ‘eat’ her.

      But if the alternative TARDIS console is the same one from The Lodger (which it seems to be), didn’t The Doctor say back then that it was looking for a Time Lord to pilot it? And so, perhaps the Silents were trying to mimic Time Lord DNA to create a being who could operate their rudimentary TARDIS? This harks back to what somebody else on here said about how valuable even one cell of Time Lord DNA could be. It’s Gallifreys answer to Jurassic Park!

  6. Rain

    Okay! Let’s tell you all what’s happening! 

    The little girl. Is amy’s daughter. In the little girl’s room there was a picture of amy, cradling a baby. That baby is her. 

    And WHO exactly is the little girl? 

    1. A time lord

    2. River song

    Anyway. Remember river song is in jail? She killed a man, the most wonderful man. That man, is the doctor. The little girl, or river song herself, in the spacesuit, kills him. Remember? 

    Now. The question is. How on earth can river song be a time lord if amy is her mother? Creepy huh? 

    And now to reveal her identity.. we all know this. River song is the doctor’s wife. But now.. no more river. The last things that were said were: 

    Doctor: you know what they say, there’s a first time for everything

    River: And a last time.

    Poor, poor river. What was she saying? She was saying, that was the last time, the last time she will ever be ‘with’ him. 

    So! When river said ‘I hope my old man didn’t see that’ she was reffering to the doctor as her husband. 

    This is all very confusing.. lots of questions unanswered..

    How can the little girl be a time lord? 

    Why on earth would she want to kill the doctor?

    Will we ever see river song again? 

    And one word. A simple word. who.

    :'( >feels sorry for river song< 

    1. sgreco1970

      yeah the River story has always broken my heart, ever since Library. But, the good news is, from here on, she will, to us, know him more and more and so will he. We’ve already seen River older and older in the previous episodes, knowing a doctor who knows her less and less. We’re fast approaching the time now when they knew each other equally and were married. So, we’ve already seen all her sadness and loss where the Doctor is concerned, now its time to see them in the bloom of love. Can’t wait for that. Its my hope we get her for next season as his main companion and they can do the husband wife thing.


      concerning your quote: ” River song is the doctor’s wife. But now.. no more river. The last things that were said were: 

      Doctor: you know what they say, there’s a first time for everything

      River: And a last time.

      Poor, poor river. What was she saying? She was saying, that was the last time, the last time she will ever be ‘with’ him. “

      Well for one, its not “no more river” because the next time River appears, as far as River is concerned, its in Pandorica / Big Bang. She meant the last time she would ever kiss him. For the Doctor, however, it was the first time he ever kissed her -first implying there will be more, and of course, as a married couple there will be. I strongly feel we’re about to see some happy times for River -the younger River, who is married to the Doctor.

  7. jefft

    That suit.. how far removed from a Cyberman is that suit, exactly?

    Survival suit, strength, combination of organic and cyber tech, self-repairing..

    If you look at the suit like Iron Mans’ mark I, and the Cybermen as Iron Man Red-n-Gold suit..?



    1. sgreco1970

      yeah, it occurred to me when she said the spaceman was going to eat her. It reminded me a bit of the biting cyberman helmet trying to acquire a new host body. The question still remains…why? Why come to earth, spend thousands of years growing mankind so they can make a suit that will use a little girl, possibly little timelord girl, as a host?

    2. grift

      that’s a great point. i didn’t even think about that, but it does seem like the cyberman’s MO. if it is an earlier version, i wonder what the silents have to do w/ them then. the doctor says that the reason humans are going to the moon in 1969 is so that they can get that suit… hm…

      1. pirho

        Well the 1st doctor encountered the Cybermen on Mondas, which was the 10th planet, so maybe the silence was persuading the humans to build a ship to go there so they could build the cybermen.

  8. Ricardo

    How about…River is Amy’s daughter and the little girl is River’s daughter with the Doctor thus half Time Lord? And she would have Amy’s photo because Amy is her grandmother? But then …why wouldnt River recognise her, given she must have given birth to her before this ep, since in this ep shes suggesting this is the point she and the Doctor part? And if she knows all about the Doctor’s future wouldnt she have a fair idea what happens (offspring-wise) and when? It actually doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, but I know I must be missing something huge, obvious and crucial.

    As to who killed the Doctor … my brain’s nowhere near big enough to cope with that one. The idea that its River though …wouldnt she have recognised the scenario before it happened, given the River at the picnic was already serving time for murder? Or maybe not. My head is now swivelling round and round on my neck.

    Like someone said I hope its all planned and not Stephen Moffat losing control of his convoluted plot lines. And most of all I hope they’re able to explain it in a way most of the audience will be able to understand; the River/Doctor timelines going in opposite directions has already baffled a fair number. In fact Im not entirely sure I get it myself… Since when was Dr Who this hard? 😛

    1. sgreco1970

      well, I have another theory that might explain how River wouldn’t know all of these events. It could be River in the spacesuit that kills the Doctor. I noticed tonight they said the spacesuit could “hack into any system.” …what if the Doctor uses the spacesuit -in the Library (I’m CERTAIN we’ll return to that Library) and hacks into the system and revives River, bringing her back to life, within the suit, like a birthing chamber of sorts? THEN she fulfills destiny and kills the Doctor because dying is some sort of plan of his to save the universe. Something involving needing his regeneration energy to spew out or something. Then, River and the rest do a similar thing that they did to ressurect the cremated Master and POOF we have the doc back AND a new river song. In the end, however it works out, Im sure it will tidy up storylines.

      1. Gerard McGarry

        Except…if The Doctor dies and is regenerated in the same way as The Master, there’s every chance he’ll come back as a complete lunatic. That whole thing in the End Of Time was very Pet Cemetary.

        1. msbeadsley

          Didn’t his wife try to kill him as he came back? Didn’t that make his regeneration go awry? He was already mad; Rassilon made sure of that in his childhood.

  9. Rain

    xD nice thinking.. that could be right aswell.. agh! Doctor who is so amazing now that it forces me to find out about it and try and guess about what will happen! These questions NEED to be answered or all will loose saneness XD

  10. Rain

    Best catch phrases.. EVER. 
    “I’m going to need a SWAT team ready to mobilize, street level maps covering all of Florida, a pot of coffee, 12 Jammie Dodgers… and a FEZ!”

    “I’m being extremely clever up here and there’s no one to stand around looking impressed! What is the point of having you all?”

    <3 XD 

  11. sgreco1970

    BTW lest we forget, “silence will fall” was also audible in the TARDIS when it was controlled and flown to….the moon? Say, this is just occuring to me now. When The TARDIS was taken away, while River was inside, she opened the door and saw only solid rock. Rock where?? When it exploded a moment later it was in the sky, burning like the sun… could it have been inside the moon???? That’s curious, eh?

    So, whomever did this (rumors say Omega) WANTED the TARDIS to explode. Wanted the Doctor to restart the universe maybe? Knew about the silence. Involved with the Silents? I think ALL of our questions hinge on who stole the TARDIS and why…

  12. Rain

    genius.. XD lol 

    :O… wait, hang on.. yes! 

    Such a coincidence don’t you think that ‘silence’ in the library was called just that don’t you think? The silence follows, wherever they go. Something to do with the doctor, and something to do with river song. 


      1. grift

        since “silence in the library” i’ve been wondering about what really happens to river. i just refuse to believe that that’s the end. although i appreciate finality, even if it means the death of a beloved character, it would be great if river turned out to be time-lord, or half time-lord, or perhaps just has a daughter w/ the doctor in whom her spirit can live on.

        1. sgreco1970

          yeah at the very least, if that’s how it all really ends for River, at least she has some happiness. That’s more than you can say for Adric, Donna and the christmas lady, to name a few.

          But hmm, ive been wondering how the doctor will be saved. He needs his “soul” stored somehow. This just reminded me that River’s has been stored and then imparted into CAL. I wonder if that tricksy special sonic screwdriver will re appear…

  13. Jiminy

    Just a thought… reading through your comments, nobody has thought about the possiblilty of it not being the silence or the space suit that enabled the child to phone the president. i refer you to the prelude to episode 1 when you first encounter the girls voice on the end of the telephone to the presedent.

    she tells him to turn around and informs him that there are monsters everywhere.

    this is important for a number of reasons.

    1. it cant be the silence (i take it by that you do mean the creatures that wipe the memory of them from your minds when you anr not looking at them) because the child describes them as monsters, thus if it was them who had given her them number she wouldn’t consider them monsters and space men at the same time,

    2. she either has extencive mind powers or when she was talking to the presedent the monsters were in the room with her, this leads me to thinking she is definatly time lord, or else had they been in the room they would have tried to stop her.

    3. it is possible that when she said spaceman she is refering to the doctor himself. he is very human looking so if anyone would be a space man in her eyes, it would be him, although if she is timelord she would recognise him as being one, or can young timeloards not??? anyway, if the doctor needed to get him self there he would know that he could use the girl to call the president and entice himself to where he needed to be.

    this leads me quite nicely onto my next point, that it could be the doctor in the suit. in the liburary we saw that their space suits could hold the reverberations of the dead’s souls. this could mean that the suit that we see kill the doctor contains the reminants of his mind linked with cal, he needs himself to then die at this point to give himself the regeneration power to regenerate himself in the suit, thus he recognised someone’s life force in the suit, but couldn’t work out who’s it was because it was his.

    by the way, i dont think the young girl could be the doctor or jenny because we have never seen a timelord revert to a previous state of life, by this i mean, baby, infant, child, teenager, adult. we have seen the doctor getting younger with each generation (possibly because the audience wants a younger more energetice hero rather than an old man running from aliens and wars) but never stepping back into a previous state. as with all time lords, i can not see them reverting to a child like statw while being able to keep controll of all that they have seen and learnt through the years because all young timelords we have seen haven’t got the intelectual capacity of their elders, thus why would a species develop by alowing it’s self to receed in it’s regeneration. regeneration is a way of extending life, rather than loosing some of it and reverting to a previous state

  14. The11thDoctor



    Im watching the episode 2 episodes after the one we are discussing (via netflix). They found a message having the time lords saying that they are alive. The TARDIS has landed on a planet outside of the universe and they are saying that there have been many Time Lords and many Tardiss on the planet. Anyways, I think that they will find the child timelord in this episode. Of course I have no clue yet, I have just started the episode. And just a heads up:

    1 The Doctor locked Amy and Rory in the TARDIS.

    2 The TARDIS has lost all power

    3 The Aliens have taken the tardis’s soul and put it in another alien

    4 The aliens have killed most of the Time Lords


    Im going to finish this episode and i hope that this can help in some way.

  15. pirho

    It’s a shame that this forum has become so dead.  I loved coming here and talking with my fellow whovians and debating the episodes.  

    1. Emperor Gregor

      I agree. Let’s get things going. Let’s start with Clara. Like her or hate her, she is definitely something else. There are little clues about her every week. The big one was in Cold War. They were paddling in that water. It might be six inches. At a push it might be a foot – though that would mean it was up to her knees. No way did she dive in to retrieve that screwdriver. Not in body. In mind, maybe. What happened then. Was she in a sort of trance when she did it – preprogrammed to protect maybe? Did she die? Something happened. Then after all that, the screwdriver just turns up on the floor – according to the scientist. Which floor? Under how much water? How did it get there? Then, at the end, they are all in grave danger – until Clara sings human songs of the old times (and if the old scientist knew those lyrics, how did she, unless she is an empath).

      This week in Hide we get another clue. Empaths are not bad, says the Doctor. They are good. I have thought from Victorian Clara on that she is an empath. That’s how she knew the right question to ask to get the Doctor’s attention, and how she got everyone to cry and melt the snow. And did you notice that when they were ghost hunting something whizzed by behind them, and Clara noticed and the Doctor didn’t. Come to that – the house is the one in which Victorian Clara died. Is she ‘just an ordinary girl’ as the psychic says? I think not. She doesn’t like the Doctor and warned Clara not to trust him. If Clara is special she’d know. But she wouldn’t tell. The question is asked – but we have to work out the answer for ourselves.

  16. sgreco1970

    well, I havent been here in forever, mainly because there’s no intriguing mysteries to debate and discuss as we once did about River Song. Clara just isn’t doing it for me, and neither are the episodes so far this season. Clara is just bland; lacking any real personality. Think about it. Like or hate her, after ONE episode with Donna Noble, you knew what to expect from her. Her personality was clearly defined, quickly. So was Amy’s, Rose’s and Martha’s. Clara just seems so barely there to me, sadly. And the episodes just aren’t terribly clever or involved. But, I still watch and hope.

    That said, some have wondered if Clara is a projection of Cal. Others think she isn’t real at all. Perhaps a construct of the GI? The water theme is definitely there, and I’m curious as to what it might mean. 

    1. Emperor Gregor

      I’ve been but no-one else came and no-one responded to the one comment I left.

      Clara is there but as she’s a mystery you don’t get to see what she’s like. We’re supposed to work it out. And she is a mystery. Just how did she dive head first into the water in Cold War to retrieve the sonic screwdriver – into six inches of water! Obviously the dive wasn’t physical. Psychic? Out of Body experience? Is she an empath. The clues are all there. I think yes because the clues are all there. And if so, we’ve just been told she’s one of the good guys. Is she just an ordinary girl? No. Because the psychic in Hide says she is – but she doesn’t like the Doctor and wouldn’t reveal anything about Clara to him. So we have to believe the opposite of what she says. And I don’t think it’s a co-incidence that Hide takes place in the house where Victorian Clara died. But then I don’t think the Doctor is only 1000 years old. He is as a Time Lord. But he’s older than that. And where do you hide a really old entity in plain sight? In a race of people who regenerate and don’t die. He got born. Had parents. Had kids. Clara got born. Had parents. She’s a clue to what he is, to his big secret. But I’m probably wrong. Speculating’s fun, though.

    1. Emperor Gregor

      Yes, you’re right, it could! She is the only mystery worth solving. Once he realised she had died, been buried, and resurrected somehow he was off on the hunt for an answer, when nothing else at all could draw him out. And not for the want of trying. What is it he sees in that mystery that is so important to solve? It has to relate to the big secret he is keeping, and he has to find out what it is.

      This entire second half of the series is leading up to Trenzilore and the secret that must never be told. A secret he’s so concerned himself should not be told he was prepared at Lake Silensio (before he found a way of dying metaphorically) to die in body. And ever since. He offers himself to Akhaten and then threatens to blow up the world, and himself, in Cold War.

  17. Emperor Gregor

    Moffat, I realised recently, wrote some episodes right back in series 2 or 3. Didn’t he write The Girl in the Fireplace? When Mme Pompadour identified how he’d been such a lonely little boy. Moffat said in the Radio Times that the secret is big enough to rebrand the Doctor. I bet he’s had this in mind for as long as he’s been writing episodes. So which ones did he write apart from Silence in the Library and Forest. Anyone know? Because I’m wondering now if the title Silence has a double meaning. We haven’t yet found the answer to all the questions about them, yet. Like how they found out about the Doctor’s secret (or Dorum come to that). Who took over the ship when it crashed and created all the cracks in the universe. They’ll be back. A list of the episodes Moffat wrote would be useful.


  18. sgreco1970

    He said the secret would be big enough to rebrand the doctor? Hmm. Very interesting. I have been of the mind that this idea of the doctor’s true name is a catch 22 idea. If they tell us, they ruin his mystery and any answer can never be as satisfying as the mystery. No name will satisfy us. No story would be big enough. But if they don’t tell us, then we feel the plotline was a gimmick and cheap. I think its a difficult arc and has to be very delicately handled. But if he said that, I wonder if he will actually make a definitive answer. And honestly, will he screw up Doctor Who by doing it?

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