had a few thoughts on what the finale of pandorica and what may explain the fuzzyness of the whole series so far.

See diagram attached which has most events removed to concentrate on important issues of the theory and who the villians might be for the finale

Omega – the Voice in the tardis 
          – trapped inside a black hole he created by collapsing a star 
          – the eye of harmony was created from same blackhole
          – Are the first doctor and omega one and the same?

Rassalon – Creator of the eye of harmony
            – Other Tardis in “The Lodger”
            – ruler of the death zone

Valeyard – after 2000 years of nothing but his own thoughts inside the pandorica on 26-06-2010 escapes the pandorica and exacts revenge onto hisself becoming the valeyard which is an established event that happened between the doctors 12th and 13th regeneration 12.5 you could say.

Remembering the doctor must always stay close to the causel nexus of an established event once he crosses into it i.e. his own life. 

All possible plots seem to point to the eye of harmony being at the centre of the mystery unravelling. Given its obvious inclusion in City of the Daleks Game released a few weeks ago.

Leaves a few things still to be answered but i think the diagram makes a little sense of what is maybe to come.

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  1. Mitnik

    I had wondered if the voice might be Omega, and with the eye of harmony being in the City of Daleks game it reminded me that in the Doctor Who Movie an artefact referred to as the Eye of Harmony was the primary power source of the Tardis.

    The Master also uses the Eye to see what the Doctor is seeing at the same moment. The symbiosis between a Timelord and his TARDIS has been hinted at before and I wonder how the Tardis exploding and the Doctor being trapped in the Pandorica might be used. 

  2. tardisbuilder

    if it does involve the eye of harmony which version of the master was sucked inside it, in the cloister room at the end of the movie and which version of the eye of harmony did the dalek posses. The one from the movie seen in the cloister room or from when it was created by rassalon containing Omega?

    the doctor also nearing his 13th regeneration would make sense if they were to include the eye of harmony if he is ever to recieve a new regeneration cycle or bypass the limit as its said that Rassalon did.

  3. tardisbuilder

    I think one thing is certain he wont be regenerating unless it is to become the valeyard(or the farmyard as 6th doctor mockingly calls him) unless theres a reset button in here somewhere that creates a new timeline.

    Also who was the time agent that river got the vortex manipulator from?

    It more likely that the doctor is more vital to the existence of the timelords from day one than originally thought.


  4. Mitnik

    My first thoughts on this finale were that DT was going to be in the Pandorica.

    I’ve puzzled over which eye the Daleks managed to get their hands on. Especially if you look at the “reset” at the end of the game and how that’d fit into the rest of the storyline.

    I’d assumed the time agent was Captain Jack, but it could be John Hart maybe?

  5. Jeffrey Scott

    Unfortunately, I am unable to play the game that was released but sounds like fun. My wild theory is we will see at least one renegade Time-Lord before this series is over.

    Props to you for digging out the ol’ Valeyard as a possible suspect. How cool would that be?

  6. tardisbuilder

    Yeh captain jack would be a likely candidate for the arm  he would just grow another one.

    I would assume, its the eye of harmony PRE tardis, which is responsible for a paradox(the same eye existing twice in the same timeline) and cracks in time. 

    The one thing im considering is the mental state of the doctor when he escapes pandorica and how that relates to him becoming the valeyard on saturday or starting the chain of events that creates him. Given the dreammaster is creation of the doctors own mind and dark urges, the valeyard was a similar manifestation.

    I think the valeyard from memory was eventually killed by a lightening bolt from the tardis I remember reading somewhere.

    Theres still room for another generation of doctor to appear past or future to save the day if not all of them. It happened before, like in the “the five doctors” where they visit rassalons tomb within the death zone.

    Rassalon is the question mark for me really, If omega was to appear does it really mean he must too.

    Also there is room for the doctor to appear before he ever regenerated the 1st time and explain is he linked to omega or is omega.

    The other combination of villian could also be the master and omega escaping the eye of harmony together and joining forces with the valeyard  who was in cahoots with the master in the trial of the doctor. In return for the doctors conviction the master is offered the doctors remaining regeneration. In the current time line and the world of wibbly wobbly timey whimey has the valeyard happened or is he due to happen is the question.

  7. tardisbuilder

    Also susan foreman the doctors granddaughter was left on earth after the dalek invasion never to be seen again, maybe she will make an appearance. Or one of her children.

    Or maybe John and Gillian who it is still unclear did the doctor dream them up or are they real.




  8. Jeffrey Scott

    John and Gillian. LOL, wow that’s a blast from the past.

    Unless mentioned anywhere else, I’d say it’s a safe bet we’ve heard the last of them.

    1. tardisbuilder

      the other thing thats niggling me from memory is in the movie with Paul McGann the arch surrounding the tardis control panels is identical to the arch in new tardis shown in the lodger. Dont know if this means anything but is definately a Tardis maybe the first.

  9. tardisbuilder

    The tardis being built Or the real tardis

    real tardis – seemed a lot darker and less playground like tbh, its all a bit bright for my liking the new tardis.

    the tardis being built, I assume it hasnt had a desktop theme applied yet 🙂

    Big bang has to answer a lot of stuff this weekend and explain why moffet has been keeping us waiting so long, for a story line worthy of DW.

    Its all been to light hearted till now, which didnt introduce Matt well either as the successor to DT. The lodger showed first signs of there might actually be a show growing here, especially matt playing football, as great as DT was you couldnt have done that with him. Since that ive found my self warming to him and starting to see him more as the doctor.

    But the innocent tone of the series up until the lodger also makes me believe the valeyard may be round the corner. Being as they will have to send him on a darker path if it was president across a series rather than 2 part finale.

    Dont get me wrong theres moments through the series, which you do have to love, but its not been whats expected from dw until the pandorica opened.

    also ive just watched the end of 8th doctor movie online and he gets blind sided by a tool bearing the same markings as the pandoricle.

  10. Jeffrey Scott

    I’ll have to re-watch the TV movie. I bought it in the UK but have play it on my computer as my PS3 doesn’t handle region-2, but my computer dvd does. Go figure.

    The reason I mentioned the lighting is because they have shown that before, the interior of a Tardis being darker especially when run by one of the Doctor’s enemies; i.e. the Master or the Rani.

    1. tardisbuilder


      question still comes back to is it omega or the master in the eye of harmony controlling the tardis or both. but the return of the master would be weak plot line and too early to bring back without feeling like a recycled storyline. after the end of time.

      Could be an interesting conflict if two masters were present john simm and Eric Roberts, kinda ying and yang to the valeyards conscience.

  11. Mitnik

    Well River did insist an outside presence was controlling the Tardis, but maybe it was more of an “inside” presence, we saw the shadow of the dream maker on the console after he was defeated showing he was still very much a part of the doctor and just waiting for the right moment to strike again.

    I’ve been rewatching to see what I might have missed and I’d totally forgotten the silence at the end of Vampires of Venice.

    1. tardisbuilder

      I think the silence was more a warning of the existence of the rest of the universe blinking out of existence. also why ive been trying to ignore it to be honest, whoever is coming I think we definately have to look further than the 9th doctor to work it out ahead of saturday and concentrate a bit more on the mythology.

      The doctors greatest crimes where commited after the 6th, So I’m assuming that is why, the valeyard targets the 6th doctor in trials of a time lord. In order to create a new timeline where these things did not happen. Sitting there for x years thinking i destroyed pompe, the daleks, ….. all his wrongs…….. So we may see a new time line yet in order for time to be later corrected if that was to happen and he does become the valeyard. maybe in trials of timelord from a different angle.

      if it does happen im assuming, he comes out of the pandoracle not quite right and progresses into the valeyard over the next series, maybe the master whispering in his ear pushing him in the right direction of becoming the valeyard.

  12. Mitnik

    You saying Mythology.. Just reminded me of the MYTH logo on the Laptop in the first episode.

    There is a chance that the voice in the Tardis could be the master, after all he will no longer have the sound of drums so for him silence.

    I’d love to see the Valeyard picked up and a much darker series of intraspection and a righting of wrongs, but would that mean joining the alliance?

  13. tardisbuilder

    I dont actually think there is a purpose for the alliance other than to place him in the pandoricle theyre just puppets, just a distraction for us, the real villian will appear. i.e. possibly omega, rassalon, valeyard(matt), or disasterously the master unless he’s a cut scene at the end to open up a later story running off in the distance. for the valeyards collaboration with the master. tbh I think the master could only be a subplot for later, otherwise he has been overdone and would take some real magic for us to accept he’s back again! so soon.

    I did have one thought regarding rory is in a time loop which explains the discrepancy with issue date of his id in 11th hr. i.e.

    Roman rory kills amy, Roman rory lives until 1990 when he enrols as a nurse in time to meet future amy at some point, meets the doctor, eaten by the crack, then does it all over again.

    I think there could be an opportunity for companions to change hands to a previous doctor if matt was to become the valeyard, maybe paul mcgann & co + amy & rory in search to save dw11 from valeyards persona travelling round trying to undoe the valeyards wrongs until matt finally returns to being the doctor. Probably never get a dynamic like that land at our feet but would be fun.


  14. tardisbuilder

    also he is imprisoned in the pandoricle to come out the valeyard would make sense that hes known as a trickster. we dont know wether the myth refers to the doctor in his current form or future form.

  15. Gerard McGarry

    I think we’re getting into some serious flights of fancy here!

    Not to be a pin to deflate the Omega/Rassilon/Valeyard theories, but surely if someone that big as a character was to be introduced, we’d be looking at leaks of casting decisions and big-name actors for the finale?

    Look at The End Of Time – we had word that John Simm would reprise his role as The Master, and Timothy Dalton was listed as a narrator, but we all knew something bigger was in the pipeline. If there was going to be a big character, there’d have been an announcement.

    So, if we’re seriously going in this direction, it’s only plausible if it’s a character who looks like Matt Smith. Or…they bring back the Dream Lord, who’s the only person to convincingly mess with reality in this series. Look at where we are: River Song inside an exploding TARDIS, the Doctor locked away as the biggest threat to the universe. Amy with an Auton bullet in her belly. An Unholy Alliance between some of the universe’s most megalomaniac species? Now, that’s patently ludicrous!

    What’s The Doctor’s worst nightmare? Turning out to be the bad guy and the bad guys turning out to be good. Did they ever really escape the Dream Lord at all?

    1. tardisbuilder

      tbh I dont think an announcement or big name to play a character is required here, but they have obviously left us in suspense for a reason.

      Im not really expecting the alliance to be and element in the finale they dont exist any more do they as it would seem in the final scene? as also depicted in van goghs painting.

      also for all we know thats just a bright spark inside the tardis and a clever cut scene and river is still fighting to control the tardis next week.

      I hope its not something a rubbish as did they ever really escape the dreamlord.

      The doctors worst nightmare is becoming the valeyard, something he always knows he will become at somepoint after his 12th regeneration i.e. Matt.

      the dreamlord is just another example that a darker side of the doctor is looming and is more symbolic the valeyard is near, much the same as the time lord victorious line in the waters of mars under DT.

      I really hope its not as weak as theyre still in the dreamlords dream world.

      If they introduced the valeyard now it could squeeze another 3 series out of matt with ease, series matt transgressing to the valeyard, series as the valeyard, special where he returns to being his normal self maybe. And one more series as the true doctor or longer until the final regeneration.

      Somethings coming and its gonna be big otherwise, the lighthearted tone of the series so far has been for what purpose?

      Also omega could re-write time, so would make sense if he made an appearance given the current plot, question still comes back to, do all tardis have an eye of harmony or does the tardis house the same eye from galifrey?

      It obviously has a relevance and purpose greater than city of the daleks. as it was never explained how they obtained the eye and theyre claim to being the new lords of time. 

      I still think the alliance in a sense as marvellous an idea it is, is still a cameo appearance to distract us from something greater.

      The only chance for the master to re-appear is if he escapes from the eye of harmony after using his regeneration cycle attempts to create the valeyard through matt in order to steal the 6th doctors remaining regenerations which may work better with an unknown if it is carried across a whole series rather than an episode which may be the lack of announcment.

      Lets face it, Free doctor who game, bbc are obviousy up for trying different approaches to story telling and theyre claim to 17 epissodes this season not 13. issolates a certain number of people from the story as they will not play the game.

      Some kind of shock is definately in store.

      1. Gerard McGarry

        Well, we all become attached to our own favourite theories, I suppose. What I would say is go and read this IMDB entry for the episode which doesn’t list any great surprises – except at the end, which brings in Amy’s aunt Sharon and Joanne Page as a ‘Time Lady’.

        The actors with no characters beside them – Nicolas Briggs, for example, is the voice of many of the alien species’. Unless one of the others is a ‘mystery character’ like Omega or Rassilon…though it can’t really be Rassilon, because he was sent back into the Time War with the rest of Gallifrey.

        1. tardisbuilder

          Yeh I agree Omega possibly after all its only a costume. Rassalon not unless its rassalon from the death zone a later incarnation than(Timothy Dalton) played.

        2. Mitnik

          It’s been known for a while that Joanne Page was to play a “relative” of the Doctor. I don’t see her being Jenny so that only leaves a handful of options as to just who she might be playing and how thats going to fit into the overall story.

          Philip Madoc has played a fair share of Doctor Who Baddies (the War Lord & Solon spring to mind) so it’ll be interesting to see what part he’ll be playing. the War Lord was sent to all four corners of the galaxy not necessarily killed so could make a return?!

          1. tardisbuilder

            I think its going to hang more on the fact of changing how he met amy in the 11th hr in order save everything.

            Regardless of who makes a appearence, he must meddle with time, to put things right which he’ll later no doubt pay the price for maybe as the valeyard.

            So who else apart from omega could re-write time?

            If the current series was a problem with matt id probably be wish rather than he becomes the valeyard is the valeyard and would eventually return to DT’s Reign when valeyard is killed.

            But that isnt the case, if anyone is play the valeyard Matt should become him and later to reprise the persona of the doctor we all love.

            Actually one thought no one has considerered what if the villain was the valeyard and is who locked matt away in the pandoricle and responsible for forming the alliance from the future.

            If anyone could talk daleks, cybermen, …….. into working together its the doctor or the valeyard as it may be.

  16. tardisbuilder

    I actually think matt could play any good script as the doctor and is actually shaping up nicely if the writing matchs.

    Problem I had with current series 11th hour brilliant right up until the special effects at the end at the moment if it had spent few more hours at the rendering house could have been as lifting as the moment DT said “I’m that kind of man, no second chances” I think I even remember a childish smirk on my face, the doctors back!.

    “Hello, I’m the doctor if i was you id run.” Was brilliant just shame it wasnt face to face with something a bit scarier else it probably would have had the same effect on me if it was. The virus bit with the phone was brilliant too.

    Its not been bad so far, just not as full on as we’d probably like. In hindsight though some of DT’s epissodes I only warmed to through re-runs, girl in the fireplace, Daleks in Manhattan, Partners in crime(the turn left epissode I noticed straight away was on the cars) was good to find out I was right.

  17. Jeffrey Scott

    I hate to admit it, but I’m with Gerard on this on. As much as I’d like to throw my hat into the ringer that the Rani might show up to be the bad guy, I realistically don’t see it happening. As for the Valeyard, I think he was a one-off that will likely be ignored the rest of the series. I could see Rassilon being the main bad guy (in a regenerated form) but again really don’t see it happening.

    It’s likely to do with Amy and/or Riversong. How so? I guess we’ll have to find out.

    1. jefft

      Its all about Amy.

      The Doctor has said so, it’s her books that the finale spring from, it’s her memories the future Doctor has to go back and re-inforce, it’s her house the crack was in, it’s her house that’s too big, it’s her parents who are missing, it’s her garden that something landed in during the middle of the night between the 25th and the 26th (which the clock in her room shows us went missing), it’s her name on a Van Gogh painting (which we know isn’t the case in ‘real life’, and even if it was , would he have written for Amy instead of pour Amy?)

      I wouldn’t be surprised if it is little Amy who opens the Pandorica in the future.

      Actually, I have seen one site only refer to Amy as ‘confirmed’ for next season so far. The BBC are being clever about keeping leaks for the last episode under wraps.

    2. Gerard McGarry

      I love the idea of the Valeyard, and you and I have spoken before about that freaky offshoot of The Doctor that came about when Tom Baker’s Doctor regenerated. I’d be a fan of seeing that come to life, personally.

      The thing is, does anyone here really believe they’ll limit The Doctor to his regeneration limits? For one thing, we know The Master was given a second regeneration cycle. And for another, there’s always a bit of obscurity about whether the first regen was actually a regeneration. Or the time The Doctor was forced to regenerate by the Time Lords.

      What we really need is a regeneration counter on the TARDIS console!

      I think, rather than push him toward a final regeneration, they’ll find some perilous way for The Doctor to live past his final incarnation. Unless the series is floundering again and nobody cares anymore!

      1. tardisbuilder

        I dont think it would be as simple as oooh 14. If it is going to be millions of real fans dissapointed.

        Is it my imagination but has Matt referred to hisself as 11 at somepoint this series.

        We know the master was offered a new regeneration cycle for getting valeyard to turn evidence to convict the doctor. I believe John Simm Must have played a earlier incarnation than that master.

        the master from the 8th doctors tv movie was on his 13th generation so would make sense if he was instigator of the valeyard not John Simm who’s now trapped at the end of the timewar.

        There is also a freaky resemblence to prisoner zero and the master from the movie also. John Simm hisself does create a paradox in reality in the masters timeline.

        But Final Regeneration should definately be an oncoming factor, but not yet 12.5 is far too important to the story to be ignored for any great deal of time.

  18. tardisbuilder

    yes all speculation, we can only wait and see, theyre either after a reset to dump some of the mythology which is immentily looming or are gonna answer the mythology.

    Who ever is in the finale, its not the alliance who will feature as the main villan im sure. I think its definately come to a point we need pure DW PORN to cement Matt in its history. otherwise I could see an outcry for RTD to return next season.

    Valeyard is definately something that has to be answered through matt and im thinking it starts saturday, or they need to explain why the paradox of why he didnt manifest. Again may come down to omega’s ability to re-write time if he does not manifest during matt’s reign.


  19. tardisbuilder

    Plus why would he go through a wardrobe change for next season if he hasnt undergone some kind of personality change.

    After all Bow Ties are cool.

  20. Mitnik

    Some good points and interesting comments.. The wardrobe change does lead to a new personality angle, but maybe it’s just the loss of Amy and another lonely doctor?

    A few leaked pictures have shown Amy in a Museum wiith the Pandorica, after all Riversong did say the Doctor would end up in a Museum someday. Not sure what connection a young amy would have though, unless it is “after” that first meeting with the Doctor when he left her waiting and she had started to make her figures that could well give her the mental power to open the Pandorica maybe.. It’s a tricky one to try and figure.

    The Tardis & Mysterious Voice is the stumbler.. It hasto be someone, doesn’t sound like the Dreamlord, Davros, The Master, Professor Yana, Rassilon (from the End of Time) so it hasto be someone other.. Omega is a good guess I feel, and we’ve already seen they are not afraid to go way back into the realms of Who lore for the new series.

    I had wondered whether Aunt Susan, might have turned out to be the Companion Susan from the fourth doctor, but looking at the actress set to play the role I now see that’s unlikely *lol*

    I’d like to see them tackle the idea of the Valeyard, but maybe it is a step too far for the series as it stands, hopefully some answers (and I’m sure a whole lot more questions) will come from todays clips and talks on the BBC Website.

    1. tardisbuilder

      Silurians may not be the only who history to be brought back to life yet is my feeling.

      Did I hear right that cyberman epissode of the game is released this week? pre saturday.

      1. Mitnik

        Cyberman game (Adventure game 2) is to be released on Saturday after the show as far as I’m aware it has the Doctor & Amy going to the Arctic and discovering cybermen buried under the snow.. will be interesting to see where that event is placed into the timeline.

  21. Jeffrey Scott

    I’ve heard a rumour about the original Cybermen coming back. (I would LOVE that). But so far have seen no evidence. Is there something in the game that might suggest that? Unfortunately the game is unavailable in America so I can’t find out.

    Anyone care to share the storyline for the game?

    1. Mitnik

      Well the Press Release for the second game.. contains the following.. could be just what your asking 😉


      “Blood of the Cybermen is classic ‘Who,” says Phil Ford, Writer, Blood of the Cybermen, Doctor Who Waters of Mars and The Sarah Jane Adventures. “From the intriguing title, through the pre-credits intro to the mystery surrounding the Arctic base, this is everything you expect from a TV episode – only this time you control the action. It’s an epic story, and one we could only tell in a computer game. We’ve ambitious sets, a thrill-a-minute narrative, and we re-introduce a Doctor Who adversary not seen since the Tom Baker era.”

  22. tardisbuilder

    try looking for a uk based web proxy, may allow you to download it

    its ok, bit static the daleks could have been a lot more intelligent, they never really move of theyre set path was the only let down, less intelligent than when they couldnt handle stairs.

  23. tardisbuilder

    the big hole in the series so far not that it was ever a factor but quite funny tho.

    If I could regenerate and found out a handy hand could ensure i get two regenerations not one id make damn sure the first thing i did was lob one of them off after regenerating regardless of how many meta crisis me’s it creates lol

  24. tardisbuilder

    actually something just dawned on me partly related to valeyard and meta crisis

    theres a man that never was, maybe that is where the valeyard persona manifests from, the fact that DT had two regenerations not one.

    1. Gerard McGarry

      Yes, it is a TARDIS – that’s why it tried to drag The Doctor in and make him fly it. I remember it distinctly because it was a really exciting development – another TARDIS! On Earth! And then it flew away, never to be mentioned again. Well, until Series 6, because I’m sure I saw it in the trailer…

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