Doctor Who mid-season finale spoilers: A Good Man Goes To War

With the mid-series finale of Doctor Who just around the corner, it’s time for us to turn our attention to A Good Man Goes To War

The stage has been set in The Almost People with the realisation that Amy Pond’s been kidnapped and held in a claustrophobic white chamber. Who’s holding her captive, and what are their reasons? Well, the eyepatch lady Madame Kovarian can be seen in the episode trailer talking about using the child as a weapon!

There’s literally a stack of information (and pictures) for the mid-series finale, so let’s get this party started:

The Doctor gathers an army and calls in some old debts

If you’ve seen the prequel for A Good Man Goes To War, you’ll know that Dorium warns some hooded figures that it’s not a good idea to anger [[The Doctor (Doctor Who)|The Doctor]].

I even hear rumours about whose child you’ve taken. Are you mad? You know the stories about The Doctor? The things that man has done? God help us if you’ve made him angry!

We’ve seen the wrath of The Doctor in David Tennant’s era in The Family Of Blood, when he callously dispatched the aliens who’d been trying to capture him. I’m excited to see this darker side of The Doctor again, and he seems particularly outraged that Korvarian plans to use Amy’s child as a weapon. And of course, there’s always the possibility that an enraged Doctor will make a critical mistake along the way…

Returning Enemies Frenemies?

Roman Rory with a Sontaran gunner behind him.The rumour mill seems to think that Captain Avery (aka Hugh Bonneville) from The Curse Of The Black Spot will make a return appearance, fighting alongside The Doctor. The official synopsis seems to support this – and the teaser pictures from the episode suggest a whole lot more

Amy Pond has been kidnapped and the Doctor is raising an army to rescue her as the drama continues. But as he and Rory race across galaxies, calling in long-held debts and solemnly given promises, his enemies are laying a carefully concealed trap.

As you can see from the pictures, it looks like Rory in particular is fighting alongside veteran enemies of The Doctor. We’ve got Silurians, Sontarans and even Cybermen in this episode. How? I’m not sure. Only a handful of episodes ago, these vintage baddies were conspiring to lock The Doctor in an inescapable box. So how and why they’ll side with him remains to be seen.

The Battle of Demon’s Run

According to what I’ve read, Demon’s Run is an asteroid. The battle that unfolds there is said by River Song to be The Doctor’s darkest hour.

What do we know? Well, there’s Madame Kovarian, the baby snatcher with the eye-patch. And there’s a Colonel Manton, who’s said to be leading a group of Clerics (like the ones from Flesh and Stone?) against The Doctor. His tagline?

On this day. In this place. The Doctor will fall.

There are also sinister cloaked figures with lightsaber-esque weapons. These look like the same ones who bought security software from Dorium. And a sci-fi squeefest space-battle, just for added fun. However, I can’t currently fathom out:

  1. Why Manton and Kovarian have an urge to destroy The Doctor.
  2. How Amy’s baby will be used as a weapon, and what it’ll be used against.
  3. Why Amy’s baby is so significant and why they chose to kidnap her and use the flesh Amy as a decoy.

There’s a Jenny!

Doctor Who - Catrin Stewart as a character called JennyThis actually makes me quite excited: Catrin Stewart plays a character called Jenny. Could this finally be a return for The Doctor’s clone daughter? Granted, she isn’t being played by Georgia Moffett, but isn’t it possible that she could’ve somehow regenerated into a new body? And wouldn’t that be wonderful – to have a semi-Time Lord character out there in the universe that The Doctor could call on from time to time?

Will we find out who River Song really is?

Doctor Who - Is River Song the daughter of Amy Pond and RoryLet’s start with this: Apparently, Amy names her child Melody. A daughter. So we have parallels in water and music. Pond is like River, Melody is like Song. The overwhelming feeling at this stage is that River will turn out to be Amy Pond’s child.

And let’s face it, that would be the kind of mixed up, Timey-Wimey relationship that Steven Moffat would conjure up. Not only does The Doctor meet his future companion’s daughter, he ‘saves’ her to a big galactic hard drive before even knowing that he has a complex future relationship with her. If that’s the case, I heartily approve.

However, we’ve yet to discover why River is still trapped in a Storm Cage. And disturbingly, all we know is that she kills “a good man”. And given that the title of this episode is A Good Man Goes To War, that puts The Doctor (or possibly Rory, who makes a hobby of dying) in serious jeopardy.

Is Amy’s baby the regenerating Time Lord child?

I seriously doubt it. I’m only mentioning this because one of our commenters raised the idea in another post. There’s a tendency to mix everything together because the clues themselves are so muddled.

But I think that Amy’s child and the regenerating girl at the end of Day Of The Moon are two seperate entities. For one thing, Amy having a Time Lord child would entail having slept with The Doctor, thus being unfaithful to Rory. And for a teatime family drama, I don’t think those themes are going to ever make it into Doctor Who.

Personally, I’m in favour of it being an incarnation of Jenny. I don’t know the whys and wherefores just yet, but that would be a very satisfying comeback for that character in my opinion. But others among you might point at The Doctor’s grand-daughter, Susan Foreman. I know there are a few fans of that character who’d love to see her return. And remember the speculation back in 2010 that Joanna Page would play a relative of The Doctor? Hmmm.

Trailers and teasers

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  1. Emperor Gregor

    there’s 3 possibilities as to who the “good man” is. a) the doctor; b) Rory, because they’ve been setting him up more and more as a caring man, a good nurse, who helps people (and flesh clones) or c) the cleric leading the army against the doctor. He’s a cleric. by definition “a good man”. If River got in his way and killed him, she’d get locked up. So I don;t think we can rule out a senior cleric.

  2. Emperor Gregor

    there’s 3 possibilities as to who the “good man” is. a) the doctor; b) Rory, because they’ve been setting him up more and more as a caring man, a good nurse, who helps people (and flesh clones) or c) the cleric leading the army against the doctor. He’s a cleric. by definition “a good man”. If River got in his way and killed him, she’d get locked up. So I don;t think we can rule out a senior cleric.

  3. sgreco1970

    “Is Amy’s baby the regenerating Time Lord child?

    I seriously doubt it. I’m only mentioning this because one of our commenters raised the idea in another post. There’s a tendency to mix everything together because the clues themselves are so muddled.”

    I think at this point its obvious she is. If she’s River, then the statement by River that this is when they finally meet is wrong, because he’s already met the little girl. If the little girl isn’t Amy’s baby, why have the picture of Amy holding a baby in her room? And then who is she? Her turning out to be yet another character might be a bit left field.

    Chubby Blue’s question of, “do you know how’s baby she is,” or words to that effect, leads me to believe the baby is the Doctor’s somehow. Doesn’t have to mean they had an affair, though, could be his ganger, could be someone stole some dna -who knows. He certainly didn’t mean Amy Pond because I doubt she’d be famous enough for Chubby to know who she is. Besides, he’s from the 51st century, like River.


    1. Emperor Gregor

      Chubby Blue’s question of, “do you know how’s baby she is,” or words to that effect, leads me to believe the baby is the Doctor’s somehow. Doesn’t have to mean they had an affair, “

      Certainly not. Stealing his dna sounds about right. We;ve had a clue – they cremate the doctor because there are beings in the universe who would raze whole planets to get hold of just a single cell. 

      Could be that River has done just that. She adores the doctor. If she wants a baby, she’d want his. If she’s in a storm cage she can;’t have one. She needs a surrogate. It would certainly answer the question as to why she’s afraid to tell the doctor who she is. “the mother of your child, only you don’t know it!”.

      Stand back everyone. As the Radio Times blog says “Want to find the most dangerous place in the universe? Easy. Harm a hair on Amy’s head and just wait.”

    2. msbeadsley

      “I even hear rumors about whose child you’ve taken; are you mad?” It wouldn’t have to be Amy’s name specifically that the rumors concern; ‘the child of the Doctor’s companion’ would be enough info to warrant the reaction. Wouldn’t it? Don’t those who know of the Doctor know he travels with humans and how very protective he is of humans and their planets and especially his dearly valued companions? And is River ‘from’ the 51st century? How do we know that?

    1. Emperor Gregor

      I think this all ties up with the Pandorica episode. I still feel the Doctor in the Pandorica wasn’t 909 but 1103. Could be wrong. I’ll be interesting finding out.

      Though there’s the whole summer to wait and another 6 episodes to go after Saturday.

      We’re going to be gibbering.

  4. Emperor Gregor

    River’s reaction to finding that her doctor is 909 not 1103 is “where does that leave us”.

    I think that’s a major question. So is that slap for “something you haven’t done yet”.

    And I think both are possibly related to the baby. Except I do not see the doctor coldly agreeing to let Amy be a surrogate. So maybe that;s because everything has gone wrong since the Pandorica.

    Also – is the Doctor’s death in the “diary” (I do wonder if it’s a diary, even now). That would explain the “of course not” when she fails to kill the doctor’s murderer. That would be in the diary too. It might even explain the “where does that leave us” comment if it means more than it seems to on the surface. What if something has suddenly happened that isn’t in the diary. Like 909 turning up when she doesn’t expect him to. She’d be very confused.

    I think both of those statements of Rivers are very important.

  5. sgreco1970

    “You are Amelia pond. We do you great honor. You will bring forth the Silence (Silents).”

    I don’t think its Rory’s baby…

    1. msbeadsley

      I do think it’s Rory’s baby, but with alterations. If it was conceived inside the Tardis, to two time-traveling parents, and infused with something else by entities with a plan for the result….I am willing for some part of the Doctor’s DNA to be involved, but not with any awareness on his part.

      The first time we see a Silent/the Silence is when Amy spies one atop a hill in the distance. I don’t think the child IS the Silence; I think maybe the child is what caused the cracks somehow; in The Eleventh Hour, the Doctor described it as “Two pieces of space and time that should never have touched, pressed together.” Sounds like a metaphor for meta-sex (or at least procreation), to me.

  6. Emperor Gregor

    There’s one inconsistency in the life of River Song.

    She lives in dread of the day she tells him who she is. And yet …. after that, on the last day of her life, she called the doctor to the library, and he came, “as he always does”. Wrong incarnation, but he came. 

    So – she must know that whatever is going to happen she will still be able to depend on the doctor and if she calls, she can expect him to come. What ever it is that is shocking about who and what she is – she must surely know they’ll get past it.

    So there has to be more to it than River just dreading the Doctor turning on her for who and what she is. Possibly something else is going to happen that day. Something really bad. We have hints – he will rise higher than ever and fall further than he ever has. I think that’s what she might be dreading – on the day she tells him who she is, he’s going to come crashing down. And there’s nothing she can do to stop it. What ever happens, she’s going to have to watch it.


    1. pirho

      But you have to remember, they live their lives in reverse.  So on her last day, it is the first time they meet.  He would have no idea until later in his life, so unless he is going to go back into his own life time and tell himself, and if that was the case he would have known about her when he first met her.

    2. msbeadsley

      There’s at LEAST one. I keep thinking that what River dreads is not how the Doctor will feel about HER once he knows her secret, but how it changes his view of himself. She is his fault somehow, and all my instincts are that much of their relationship past this point is all about a profound moral debt he feels towards her. Not that River agrees; but you know how the Doctor is.

      Amy, who is (I think) probably River’s mother, has been knocked out repeatedly by various alien factions (The Hungry Earth; Vampires in Venice) and psychic pollen (Amy’s Choice) and even died (The Pandorica Opens) and brought back to life and also intubated with an IV filled with who-knows-what (Vampires in Venice). If Amy’s child is River, and her unique qualities (like being able to regenerate, perhaps?) are a result of Amy’s (and Rory’s) travels with the Doctor, and if River is a target from even before birth (and robbed of any normal sort of childhood), that would be quite a thing to make up for.

      Also, while River may have been imprisoned due to having killed a man, I can’t help wondering if the promise she made had as much to do with keeping herself safe inside it as anything else. I get the feeling that her jailers collude at least a bit (with her? with the Doctor?); otherwise, they are pretty damned inept for the keepers of something as dire (we are given to understand) as a storm cage. It would be trivial, with the tech they have, to keep her locked up–why hasn’t somebody taken away that damned hallucinogenic lipstick, for instance? Is she even sitting in that cell at some points along her timeline polishing the leather on her vortex manipulator?

      1. Emperor Gregor

        Well spotted that the doctor’s view of himself changes once he knows who River is (and we now know you were right about her being Amy’s daughter). In the Pandorica he described this Goblin, or magician, the most feared man in the world who could raze planets. He didn;t know he was describing himself as others saw him.

        Horrible childhood memories for River. He’ll bury them deep. No wonder she is full of adoration for this man who dropped out of the sky and knew all about her. He rescued her.(a safe bet).

        Her jailors do seem to be collaborating don’t they. She seems to come and go as she pleases. But as someone with Time Lord qualities she would be difficult to confine. On the other hand, I do wonder how much of her imprisonment is self determined. It isn’t anyone else she wants redemption from for killing a good man, the best she ever knew. It’s Amy. Especially if she kills Rory – that means she kills her dad.

          1. Emperor Gregor

            Thanks for the link to the new post.

            I am not convincdd that River kills the doctor and gets punished for it. I mean – doesn’t half the universe want to kill him because they think he is some sort of monster?  Rory is killed off so many times, he seems  good candidate for the role of victim.

            Unless the second doctor (the one in the black tie as opposed to the red tie – which is an assumption on my part that there are 2) is somehow the hero and the original doctor is the perceived villain. Though it would need a huge plot twist to set that one up.

  7. Emperor Gregor

    But there is one instance when she tells him – before the Pandorica (I think it’s the Pandorica) – that she remembers it well. Everything that is to happen to him in the future has happened to her in the past. And she remembers it. Or it’s in the “diary”. So whatever is waiting out there for the doctor in his future she already knows about.

    Although – If he is moving forwards and she is moving backwards, there should come a point in the middle when they cross. No idea if this is that moment, or if that means anything.



  8. KLogan

    So on her last day, it’s the first day they meet.

    The doc meets amy’s baby for the first time. River will die then. River\Amy’s baby life their life backwards for some reason, (reminds me of the movie “curious case of benjamin button”) but in a type of regeneration type of way into another host body perhaps? maybe the being inside her needs a new host as her one is wearing out?


    She could be hosting some type of “universe saver type object\being” ready and waiting on the war of all wars, which river knows about but can’t disclose incase of this info got into enemy hands and the whole plan is’nt realised.


    Or not!


    (I typed a better explanation earlier, but all was lost during upload. Wasn’t too happy!)


    So, in other words, Amy’s baby IS river song, with some device\life form inside her with all the data required to stop a huge war..

    1. Emperor Gregor

      “In other words Amy’s baby IS River Song.”

      But why would the Doctor refuse to help River Song if he discovered River is reincarnated as Amy’s baby?  And would the universe be ripped apart if River and the baby met? Rory seems to think it would.

  9. Emperor Gregor

    I think the switch happened in episode 1. When Amy goes into the ladies’ cloakroom, she sees a white house staffer zapped by the Silence. We don;t see what happens to Amy after that. The next think we see is Amy coming out of the cloakroom. We have always assumed it was the same Amy. But that’s a possible time, because she was alone with the Silence. If that “Amy” is an avatar and not a clone (lovely definition – works for me) then the Amy in the haunted house is an avatar too.

    But if the real Amy could was interacting with the world through her avatar she might be aware of what is going on, and  she might still be searching that house for clues, even though it isn’t really her that is there. If you get what i mean.

    1. msbeadsley

      This is what I think, also. Amy felt sick, sought a restroom, met a Silent, saw a murder (or did she? something nags me about the Silent furnishing Amy with the victim’s name, Joy), and then didn’t feel sick (pregnant) anymore. I don’t think the Amyganger had any idea that she wasn’t Amyrealborn, and I don’t think that Amyrealborn had any idea (until she opens her eyes and finds herself in the stirrups being told to push–the most horrific DW moment evah, imo) that she wasn’t out there herself doing all the stuff that was actually Amyganger. (So I think Amyganger did just what Amyrealborn would have done all along the way.)

      I am also curious about what happened to make Amy decide she wasn’t pregnant. That could be an indication that whoever created Amyganger had some influence over her/it: “Tell the Doctor you were wrong about being pregnant.” Otherwise, she experienced, shall we say, a ‘period’ of feminine biology contraindicative of pregnancy? I mean, when did she have time and opportunity to stop in somewhere and take a pregnancy test?

      1. Emperor Gregor

        After watching the Good Man Goes To War, doesn’t the doctor say that it happened before America. That means that we were watching Amy’s avatar when she received the invite to America. I agree that Amy had no idea she was an avatar. She was a mind inside a body not her own, but which looked and behaved just like her own so that she didn’t know.

        What made Amy decide she wasn’t present is probably the fact that her avatar body wasn’t pregnant. Confusing for the mind – to be sort of in 2 places at once, one of which is pregnant and one of which isn’t.

        Someone else was sick, too, wasn’t she. River, I mean. Sympathetic pregnancy? As the baby in question (all grown up)? 

  10. Emperor Gregor

    On the day River dies – or gets uploaded into the CAL hard drive – it is Ten, not Eleven, that answers her call on the psychic paper. 

    Why Ten? She clearly isn’t expecting it. She knows everything else they have done together from the diary, but not that. Has the doctor engineered that, and ifso, why?

      1. Emperor Gregor

        You are quite right. River wasn’t in trouble. Which is interesting. Today and maybe a bit of tomorrow is our last chance to have a guess, so here we go.

        River is either Amy’s baby or the little girl in the suit who has time lord powers. As the baby seems to be something or someone is using as a weapon probably not him/her. Though she might turn out to be. If River is the little girl, on the other hand, she’s probably a time lord – a reasonable guess seeing she can fly the Tardis better than the doctor, knows (and pronounces) his name, and read and write Old High Galifreyan.

        Which Time Lord might River be? I have always felt it OUGHT to be the Master as if the Master did change gender the relationship he has with the Doctor could well be the one that River has. But Moffat wants to do his own thing, so probably is WON’T be. Don’t ask me which one. I have to say I haven’t a clue – or even a certainty that she is one. Just my best bet. 

        Why is River a baby/little girl. Simply because she IS living her life backwards in relation to the Doctor. And she has the “diary”. That is something I would bet on. It is not a diary – at least not in the sense that she writes down things as they happen. That I still think it’s a reference book. Either the Doctor wrote it or River took it down from dictation.

        River tells Rory in episode 2 that the Doctor descended on her life when she was a young girl and knew all about her. So presumably he has told her a lot about her past and maybe future. Moff says he got the inspiration from the Time Traveller’s Wife, which also has the same idea – the Time Traveller is given a diary which tells him where to be on certain dates. I think River was given the diary as a young girl, and told to call the Doctor on certain dates, including the Library. She was given a mission. That’s why she’s willing to put up with prison – she has a promise to keep to the Doctor, one she made as a young woman.

        That explains why she called him, even though she did not need his help. She did it because the diary told her to call him to that event. Which is interesting. It means that sometime in the next half season this is all going to be set up, with the Singing Towers and giving her the screwdriver etc.

        The interesting question after that is whether or not Moffat closes the circle and has River finally die, or whether Eleven then gets into the library after Donna and Ten leave, to get River out of the CAL hard drive before the Vashta Nerada finally take over the place and make it inaccessible.

        But who is River and why would she make a promise to the Doctor, and what could it be that was so important that she spent her entire life meeting him in reverse order until she reached the point in the Doctor’s life when he meets her for the first time as a girl. Which means River is either that baby or the little girl.

        What she is, and who she kills is something else again. That River kills Doctor is too easy. Probably Rory is going to die for one last time. After being a terrific hero.

        1. jefft

          >>Which is interesting. It means that sometime in the next half season this is all going to be set up, with the Singing Towers and giving her the screwdriver etc.<<

          Ive heard it said many times that the Doctor and River are meeting each other in reverse order. Every time they meet, he is older and she is younger.

          But that cant be the case, and it wouldnt work anyway: he travels back and forth in time. Like the time travellers wife stroy, they can meet at any age and in any order.

          Which is why they synchronise diaries, so as not to spoil each other.

          In the quote above, we have the direct evidence for this.

          They met in the library, and she has a copy of the sonic. (pointless saying ‘the sonic’ since we know he can make more, and there were 2 in the last episode, even!!)

          SO when did he give that to her? She hasnt had it in any episode since.

          If it happened at their ‘next’ meeting (Doctor timeline) following the library, we will never see the handover, because it has already happened.

          If he hasnt done it yet (Doctor timeline) then he must loop back and meet River between the events of Time of Angels and the Library, which definitely breaks the strict ‘travelling in opposite directions’ theory.

          1. Emperor Gregor

            Another clue is that River remembers something in the doctor’s future – I think when they are at the Byzantium, and she says they will meet when the Pandorica opens – and how she remembers it well.

            I think we are being given them in the order they happen so we can follow the plot. I don’t think River is living them in that order.

            Didn’t someone once say that the order they are presented in isn’t necessarily the order the characters live out the events?

        2. sgreco1970

          whew so much to cover hehe.

          Ok. let me go in reverse, in keeping with the theme.

          Rory will definitely die, and he is the “good man” River spoke of.

          River is so not the Master, it would turn the romance suddenly dark and silly.

          River IS passing the Doctor in the opposite direction; ive seen nothing yet to dispel that notion.

          The people (unknown) behind Amy’s pregnancy is restoring the Time Lord race; she is “eve.” Her daughter is River, whom the Doctor will soon meet. The Silents or the unknowns teach her Auld High Gallifreyan, how to fly a TARDIS etc.

          1. Emperor Gregor

            I think you are right about Rory. They’ve foreshadowed Rory dying so much we are even waiting for it. Whether it is tonight though, I’m not sure.

            No. River probably isn’t the Master. Moffat is too much into doing his own thing anyway.

            I thought they were growing either a Time Lord or a Tardis. Otherwise why is THIS baby important. They had a planet full to choose from including Amy herself. We have seen lots of dead Tardi out there. I think we can assume they’ve had a chance – maybe lots of chances – but either not got their hands on a Tardis (if the being that cannibalised the Tardi isn’t our current villain they didn’t get a look in), or they’ve tried and failed, and so they are and now growing a Time Lord.

            I thought they might be growing a new Doctor as the only way to get at the old Doctor. (fits in with the child being used as a weapon).Have you read Bujold? (anyone who has read Bujold will recognise my user name). Her hero (not Gregor) is cloned in childhood and a new one grown and trained up to take his place with the sole aim of being his/their father’s assassin. Bujold’s clone broke away as well, just like this child.  

            What a good idea that they are growing a new Time Lord Race. If Amy has a daughter that would make more sense. If the Doctor ever found out, he might not like that. He certainly wouldn’t like the method. Wouldn’t it be fun if the Time Lord Race turns out to be a closed circle and they are growing Omega who will go on to found the original Race, not a new one. Very timey wimey.

            Problem: If they are growing a Time Lord then they need a Time Lord’s cell to do it. (River has said there are beings in the universe who would raze planets to get one.) So either the Doctor or the Master is the father, and we haven’t had a sniff of the Master in this series.

            If the Doctor is the father of the baby in any way whatever, and if River is that baby – and they are both if “ifs” – I do NOT think Moffat would have the Doctor have love scenes with his daughter. The Beeb would never let him. Aside from the the public row – which would be huge – the Chairman and the Board would probably object morally, and to be fair so would Moffat. This is a small island where one single case is taken personally by all. And there have been a lot of single cases over the years. We’ve even had a paediatrician’s house trashed because the mob didn’t know the difference between paediatrician and paedophile – the press just rage on about paedo’s. If the Doctor is the father, River might be complicit but she may not be the daughter (who is a frightened victim anyway). If an X is growing a new Time Lord race from the Doctor, River is the mother. Or Amy is the mother and the child is only half a time Lord – but enough.  

            And that all assumes the baby and the child are the one and the same. Opinion is divided on that one. Personally, I haven’t a clue.

            Second Problem  I STILL think the diary is a reference book and only a diary in the sense of an appointments book. River meets him as a girl and the Doctor gives her the diary will instructions to call him him at certain points during his lifetime. It explains why she calls him to the Library even though she wasn’t in trouble at the time. Nor was he. If the Doctor gave her the diary, he knew she’d need him. That means he has to set it up. So the future Doctor trusts her implicitly. Presumably even after this is all over. I think she’s a hero. Her behaviour in the CAL hard drive indicates this.

            Re a name:  What if the Doctor’s real name is a combination of his parents’ names known only to the closest family. The only time he could then tell anyone would utter his name is when they name one of his children. No wonder he looks bewildered in the Library. 

            Re time streams – the black and red bow ties do indicate there are 2. Have seen a cast list. The fat one and the thin one are listed – so Laurel and Hardy turn up presumably. 

            Anyway – we’ll have better guesses after tonight.

    1. msbeadsley

      River doesn’t know her own death (or upload into the CAL system) is coming before it happens; the stuff in her diary is her past and the Doctor’s future, but she can’t write it in there before it happens to her, can she? (This time travel stuff is hard on the sinuses, isn’t it? Or is that my brain?)

      1. Emperor Gregor

        If River is really meeting the doctor backwards in a straight line in her own time line, how come she remembers the Pandorica before it happens. For her to be writing a genuine diary, and checking to see if they have done XYZ when they meet, it has to have happened. So she cannot be travelling in a straight line.

        I think we are seeing the doctor’s time line, which is a straight line.

  11. Emperor Gregor

    One interesting little event – from RTD’s time – is that the Doctor knows the Master’s name and presumably vice versa. When the Master steals the Tardis and regenerates into John Sim, the Doctor calls to him to stop, and calls him “Master”. The Master tells the Doctor to use his name. The Doctor, in reply calls him Master, to which the Master says something along the lines of “suit yourself” – and steals the Tardis. It could be that the Master (thinking about the power of a name) meant “so make me” or “control your ship with me in it, if you can” or even “kill me, if you dare”. 

    I’m trying to work out how such a position between River and the Doctor would force the Doctor to give River his name. It can’t be just a way of surrendering control of the Tardis, if the Tardis is keyed into him. River did take command of the Tardis to reboot the universe, and if the Doctor gave her his name to access to the Tardis, we’ve all missed it.

    So why is a Time Lord’s name so important? And if River is Romana (as I have seen suggested) is “Romana” her true name or just a title in Galifreyan? Are “Omega” and “Rassalon” names? Because if the Doctor’s name is important, they’ll have to sort that one out. Any suggestions, anyone?

    1. sgreco1970

      You’ve really hit on something.

      I don’t think River is Romana because they’ve met already and all she’d have had to say in the Library was “Oh, I’m Romana, Sweetie.” But as far as the whole name thing goes, you’re right on the money.

      The Doctor was floored that she knew his name. And by his own admission there was only one time when he ever even could have told her his name. Perhaps the simple notion was that occassion was their wedding but I can’t possibly accept that. Until the preacher asks for your name so he doesn’t have to say, “Do you, The Doctor, take this unnamed and unspecified being to be your lawfully….” its a big secret? No..

      There is something special about their names. He told her his for a reason, a powerful reason, and we will see it for sure. Whether or not we will actually hear his name is another story. Part of me says we should never hear it, that to the audience he must forever remain “The Doctor” but then another part of me says there’s been much buildup about what his true name really is and to never find out would be disappointing. Then again, what name could they actually utter that would ever meet expectation? Maybe an eternal mystery is better…

      Whatever it is, River will be told it and for a reason… a serious reason.

      Even your name is false. Your real name is hidden within the cascade of medusa herself. (or words to that effect). Spoken by an oracle of Pompeii, this was a massive indication that there is something worth knowing about the Doctor’s name. Its not just “Bob,” and knowing it does not mean you simply have a name to put at the top of an envelope…

      And speaking of the envelope. He didn’t get message one on TARDIS blue stationery via the post. Ordinarily, his mail comes from either psychic paper or a glowing white box. So how did he get the letter?? Was it taped to the TARDIS door? I don’t believe I’ve ever seen a mail slot on those double doors ;p So how? We keep presuming that his ganger sent the letters and that he’s as in the dark as the comnpanions….but what if that weren’t quite true?

      1. msbeadsley

        Is it possible that the only time (as Ten(nant) said) the Doctor would give someone his name was as he died the true death and that’s what Eleven whispered to River after the astronaut shot him?

        A question I have is why River told AMY to ask the Doctor (who came out of the restroom right after they’d burned his older self’s corpse) how old he was. Maybe it was because Amy needed to know more than River did (she had to already know that this was a younger version; she’s an experienced time traveler). I still don’t really understand why River slapped him; maybe it was because he’d stopped running (and therefore let HER catch up with him and kill him? I keep thinking River doesn’t remember being a child prior to when the Doctor fell out of the sky knowing everything about her)?

        1. Emperor Gregor

          If the Doctor could only give someone his name at the point of his true death (reasonable since the Shakespeare Code indicates that’s a way of killing him) then I’m surprised he didn’t run a mile from River when he heard her whisper his name. Unless he somehow felt that the Ood had been predicting his final death.

          I don’t think we are going to lose the doctor though. Moffat will have something in mind. 

          He has said that Time Can Be Rewritten is going to take on a whole new meaning. I wonder if, now that the Doctor knows that River is Melody, that he might have second thoughts about leaving her in CAL. He’d want to rescue her for Amy if not for himself.

        2. Emperor Gregor

          I keep thinking River doesn’t remember being a child prior to when the Doctor fell out of the sky knowing everything about her?

          Not something you’d want to remember. You’d bury that childhood in the darkest corner of your mind. 

          I agree that the slap is significant. About something “he hasn’t done yet” and I don’t think it’s dying. Though I suppose it might be if she wasn’t expecting it.

          The doctor wasn’t so much murdered as get executed, either, didn’t he. His whole body language consented to that shooting. If there are 2 time streams (represented by two bow ties) then I suppose that is the last phase of closing the cracks in the universe – reduce the doctors to a single entity. So the 1103 doctor could then be sacrificing his identify for the sake of the universe.

    1. pirho

      DOn’t worry about the US folks, if they don’t want to read about it then they dont have to go to this page.  I personally always find a way to keep up with the UK broadcasts, so I’ll be watching!

  12. Emperor Gregor

    One last wild guess before zero hour.

    How about something simple and basic and so obvious no-one has even taken it as a serious option. Like she is Susan’s mother, and the doctor’s Time Lord Wife. Maybe he left her behind, or maybe he took her along with Susan, only they split up. If she wasn’t on Galifrey when the Time Lock was put in place she is still around. And she did marry him.

    I know she says the Doctor is looking younger than she has ever seen him but I’m sure Moffat could explain that one away.


  13. pirho

    So the question is, are we discussing this or ot, because right now, I’m busting to talk to you guys about it!

  14. pirho

    I was just re-watching the episode, when they asked the Doctor, if he had any children, he avaoided the question.  I wonder if they are going to bring back Susan, or at least maybe the Doctors Daughter/Son?

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