Doctor Who – The Almost People – Open discussion thread!

Evening, all! This is the Unreality Shout review-it-yourself-o-matic machine!

I’m off to the cinema this evening to see Attack The Block, and I don’t quite have enough time for my usual rewatching and reviewing of Doctor Who’s The Almost People. I’ve heard it described as a patchy, frustrating episode, but once again I quite enjoyed it.

Two Doctors? What’s not to enjoy?

Anyway, I know you lot like to have a debate on a Saturday night about the latest Doctor Who episode – let’s kick it off in the comments, and I’ll publish my full review in the morning when I’ve had a chance to watch the episode again!

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10 Comments

  1. pirho

    So Amy was a ganger the whole times?  This also blows the theroy of the other Doctor being the clone that got killed.

  2. Dilettante

    So the Doctor spends the entire episode talking about how the flesh are legitimate people whose lives are sacred, and then he just ‘decommissions’ Amy?

     The episode resolved all the potential dilemmas of having multiple people by having a maximum of one copy of each survive. Thus they can follow the Doctor’s philosop ofhy ‘a copy without an original is original’ as demonstrated by his acceptance of nestene-Rory as Rory.

    1. msbeadsley

      He did seem pretty direct about melting Flesh Amy, but it wasn’t the same; she had no independent existence and was nothing but a conduit for original Amy’s consciousness, probably for a substantial chunk of the pregnancy. So in order to wake up original Amy, Flesh Amy had to go away.

       

      And I want to know how a Nestene Rory knocked up Amy. No, I refuse to believe it’s the Doctor’s baby, euww.

  3. sgreco1970

    thanks to the magic of youtube I got to see this episode tonight instead of having to wait a week thank god, i would have missed our weekly chats).

    All i can say is …WHAT??

    So, ok, sure he decommissioned amy but Im guessing he had a reason. This definitely explains why she was able to see the slidy-door woman. Her consciousness was always in that birthing tube. But how? How did the flesh duplicate her? Why did the send her?

    As far as the decommissioning goes, I think this was more the case of how the flesh was intended to work: the real person is plugged in, and sees through the ganger’s eyes. Amy was in the birthing tube but in her mind, she was with the Doctor and Rory. So, i don’t feel he “killed” the ganger, because it wasn’t an independent entity like the copies we saw, who operated independently of their original.

    I did figure they switched shoes, it seemed logical. I’ll have to rewatch the assault in the hallway scene again, tho, because that was the Doctor, not his ganger.

    groundwork has definitely been laid that the Doctor’s ganger can reform somehow, and so can the woman who remained behind with him. I’m certain, then, it was his ganger we saw die on the shore -and I bet his “killer” is Amy herself -the one who has been so distraught over his death. I also believe it was the ganger who sent messages through time, over the movies with laurel hardy, in the history books, etc, to rory and amy. To what end, however, im still unsure.

    The little girl who regenerates, must be Amy’s baby. But how can it regenerate? perhaps the spacesuit merged timelord dna with her own, provided by the flesh doctor ganger? It could turn out to be River, but who knows?

    I will say that with this 2 episode treatment of the ganger/flesh concept, I am far less upset if the doctor we saw die on the shore turns out to be the ganger. It isn’t quite the “oh it was just a clone” concept, but I still would have preferred it be a time loop and not a clone. I’m definitely looking forward to finding out how it all plays out.

    the big question Ive got is; at what point did our amy get swapped for ganger amy? My best guess is that when she was taken by the Silents, she was replaced and the real amy taken away to wherever she is now. The duplicate, who had been there “many days” was reintroduced to the group and no one was the wiser…except for the TARDIS who could detect her pregnancy was a duplication of sorts. Perhaps the ganger amy was not pregnant. But the TARDIS sees BOTH as Amy, thus she is pregnant and not pregnant.

    Important note: since the doctor in the halway, that assaulted amy screaming “why’ was actually the Doctor, and not the ganger, Amy told him he invited them to his death.

    Who has Amy? Why? What do they want with her baby? Are they aware she has a ganger out there? after all, they didn’t recognize what Amy was experiencing as ‘remote viewing” but instead suspected “she’s just dreaming.” is the baby Rory’s?

    Time will tell…

    Now for the scary thought… In rewatching Impossible Astronaut, while bearing in mind (if it turns out to be so) that the older doctor is the ganger, we have a problem. He sits down with River and synchs their diaries, claiming to have done Easter Island and Jim the Fish with her. This ganger should have all of the Doctor’s memories, yes, but these events hadn’t happened yet for the Doctor in Rebel Flesh. Is he lying to River? Was it the ganger who had a relationship with River and not the Doctor? (that would be too sad for me).

    best line from the episode: “I’ve reversed the jelly baby of the neutron flow.”

  4. sgreco1970

    when did Amy get swapped? I had thought it was while she was abducted by the Silents but it can’t be -she claims to no longer be pregnant BEFORE that happened. So when could she possibly have been taken? Only thing left I can think of was when they were roaming the country looking for Silents for 3 months, which means the Amy we’ve seen for the entire season was never really Amy.

    1. silveredtears

      Didn’t realise this was here, so ive posted on the review page, but if you go back and watch the first episode, then you see the doctor tell amy she’s put on a few pounds, when they’re out at the lake.

      the next time we see her alone is when she is feeling ill and needs to go to the bathroom, she is then in there alone with a silent and comes out not feeling sick anymore..

      she sees the woman in the wall of the little girls room before she is taken by the silents and the chip is removed, otherwise it’s easy to think she was switched when she was on the ship with the lodger-reminiscent control panel.

  5. jefft

    Having all the memories of the older Doctor doesnt rule out Ganger technology: the Doctor could be driving that Ganger specifically to have it shot. (Regeneration effect, though… hmmmm)

    Whatever revelation River comes up with next week wont be enough to sour their relationship: theres a lot of bittersweet stuff between them to come for him, and in her past.

    Unless she spent her previous life so far with a Ganger?

     

    ‘youve put on a few pounds’ is such an insulty thing to say that I am sure it is there as a clue. She was there and real at that point. What with, is another issue.

    BOTH she and River have stomach twinges in the presence of the Silence. Egg harvesting? (Bit technical for even modern kids, that)

    Why does the little girl need a support suit? Theres a similar crib in the next episode. 

    This is a really long game plan by the Moff. I’m loving it, but I do understand some of the people screaming ‘I dont understand, just give me laughs and monsters like I signed up for in 2005’ at him.

     

     

    1. sgreco1970

      well, the regeneration thing leads me to believe he is the ganger doctor, autonomous, and self-reanimated as it was hinted at (heavily) he might be able to do.

      I think the clue behind “you’ve put on a few pounds” is that she’s pregnant.

      As for laughs and monsters, i think we’ve gotten plenty of both. I, personally, prefer this overarching framework for the season and, judging by these red-hot message boards, we all seem to love picking over all the clues each week. I’d really miss this if they stopped.

      1. silveredtears

        i did mean for the ‘you’ve put on a few pounds’ comment to be referring to Amy being pregnany. What I keep forgetting is that the doctor, in hindsight, seems to be trying to make sure the clone isn’t sensing Amy’s pregnancy. He knows Amy is pregnant, and that it’s a clone that has been travelling, so I have to stop thinking as though it’s the Silents that have taken her, or something, otherwise he’d be more worried..

    2. msbeadsley

      I haven’t (been thinking of the dead Doc as a clone). The older Canton Delaware tells them that the dead guy is definitely the Doctor. And that Doctor’s comment that he’s been running for 200 years and it’s time to stop (not to mention his expression) also makes me think this guy IS the non-vat Doctor. The Doctor told the Doctorganger something on his way out like “this doesn’t have to be the end”–someone somewhere mentioned where I could read it that he was probably talking about regeneration. Of course, the process could be different for a Gangerfreyan, but I feel compelled to point out that a regenerated Doctor ought to not look like the Matt Smith Doctor we saw shot and cremated.

      I also want to know why the little girl in the space suit seems adult-tall.

      As for people wanting closure, I’m there. I don’t mind a mystery that starts out early in the season, but I pretty much want everything resolved by the end of the season. Just watched Vampires in Venice again; fishy mama said they fled the cracks and the Silence. So those phenomena are linked, but the cracks were fixed up and explained (?) at the end of last season. Or were they? Yeah, I feel jerked around. Makes me wonder if Moffat is so insecure that he is afraid if he doesn’t leave enormous questions unanswered, we won’t tune in.

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