Doctor Who: Two Doctors in Flesh And Stone?

There’s a theory going around that Saturday’s episode of [[Doctor Who (TV Series)|Doctor Who]] – [[Flesh And Stone (Doctor Who episode)|Flesh And Stone]] – featured two Doctors.

You may have noticed it yourself – The Doctor is preparing to leave [[Amy Pond]] in the forest while he looks for a way to thwart the Weeping Angels. He seems to leave, but returns and has a very comforting, emotional talk with her in which he asks her to trust him. However, eagle eyed viewers noticed that this Doctor was wearing his tweed jacket. But when he’d left, The Doctor was in his shirt, having shrugged off his jacket to escape the weeping Angels.

Dan Owen of Dan’s Media Digest noted this in his review of the episode:

There’s a fun theory floating around that we actually saw two versions of The Doctor in the forest, because in one scene The Doctor spoke with Amy before he left to be with River while wearing the tweed jacket he’d lost beforehand. A continuty error? Maybe. But if you watch the scene, The Doctor’s dialogue does sound like that of a future-version who’s just arrived through the time-space crack to help Amy. Or are fans reading too much into a production goof?

The theory is that for some reason, [[The Doctor (Doctor Who)|The Doctor]] returns to the Byzantium from the future with a message of reassurance for Amy in the forest. That’s why he’s wearing his tweed jacket when he clasps her face.

The fansite Doctor Who TV has a fantastic photo post showing the progression of that scene. They note:

This Doctor’s demeanor is different and he is much gentler towards Amy this time.

Of course, most of us probably registered that something was odd about that scene. The Doctor was under pressure to help everybody escape the Angels, there wasn’t time to return and comfort Amy.

So, if we accept that this isn’t just a continuity error and is a very subtle part of the plot, this makes things more interesting. For a start, the shot of The Doctor escaping and leaving his jacket behind now seems obvious if we’re pursuing this angle. It was left behind to draw attention to the difference in clothing. Also, having Amy with her eyes closed and the guards all looking outward meant that she certainly couldn’t have registered the Doc-swap.

However, two questions. Because you guys know I like asking difficult questions…

  1. How did The Doctor get past the four soldiers then? If they were all monitoring the forest, they’d almost certainly have seen him walking in. Let’s advance the theory that he used the advice from River Song in [[The Time Of Angels (Doctor Who episode)|The Time Of Angels]] in order to land the [[TARDIS (Doctor Who)|TARDIS]] quietly close to Amy. The soldiers would have been too preoccupied to notice.
  2. Why would The Doctor choose that moment to jump into the story? Couldn’t he have prevented her from being ‘infected’ with the Angel’s image at the start of the episode, or was that blatant interfering with the time stream? Perhaps because the situation ended successfully (OK, not for Octavian or the soldiers), he didn’t feel the need to interfere.

Over to you lot – are we making a mountain out of a continuity error?

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21 Comments

  1. WelshSinger

    loving this theory haha! when i started reading it was like something clicked into place. its soo possible and it would be brilliant thinking of moffat if he has done something like this. i will now be very sad if this doesnt happen haha. Dan Owen is a clever chap.

  2. EchoBunny

    I missed the Double Doctor, but that was a great pick up Gerard! I guess it will take some time to find out if Mr. Moffat is that crafty. I also wonder if the people at the BBC look around the blog blogosphere and will just add it in lol. I did like the episode, and I can’t wait for next week. While I was searching for all things Who this weekend I came across this guy Tim found at  http://goo.gl/M216   Though you Who fans would enjoy his love for Dr. Who, Enjoy EB.

  3. jon jon

    It’s not just a different Doctor. It’s a completely different objective in the scene. She has to remember something he said when she was seven. And she doesn’t do anything of the sort for the rest of the episode and it doesn’t matter, despite him being so earnest that she “remember”. I am completely convinced that this is a future Doctor. And Moff has a big ace hiding up his sleeve.

     

    And did anyone else notice that Matt Smith suddenly had the flu?

    Have a listen to his voice. It’s fine, then the Jacket scene where he’s all congested and then in the next scene it’s back to normal.

    Seems like it was shot much later and then inserted into this episode. Not much background to hamper them. Wouldn’t surprise me if we hear a bit of nasal congestion from the Doctor in the episode where he goes back and makes this speech again.

    You heard it here first!

    1. Jadeariel

      I agree with you, if it was all the same Doctor he would’ve brought up the point again. He didn’t even allude to it at any moment for the rest of the episode.

      I noticed he was all congested too. But thinking back it’s almost like how people get after they’ve been crying, isn’t it? All sniffly and such.

      I think something happens and he gets tossed into the time crack and gets erased, but ’cause he’s the Doctor something interesting has gotta happen and he goes back to fix it all up and make her remember him and this just happens to be an easy time to go back and fix something without confusing the whole dang world. Maybe jumping through the cracks because the TARDIS gets destroyed, or like someone said landing it quietly like River Song can. Who knows?

      I’m really looking forward to the last two episodes, with everything being tied up and all that jazz. It’s gonna be reeeallly interesting. =)

  4. do me a melon

    Totally missed that!

    I’d LOVE to think this double Doctor idea is true; this is the sort of thing that Mr Moffat was promoted for, surely!  More complex thinking than RTD…

    I have a horrible feeling that it was just a goof, but let’s think positively!

    Come on!

  5. Jeffrey Scott

    Completely agree with the thought of this just being a goof. Truly, if it’s not a goof I will come to love this series even more because they did this so subtly. I’ll be watching closer next episode.

    And what’s with Amy? She seems different. It’s like somethings different with her. Perhaps the Angel is still hiding inside her much the same way the Mara hid inside Tegan for awhile. As I recall, it made Tegan as frisky or playful as Amy seemed to be at the end of the episode.

  6. do me a melon

    I thought Amy was completely out of character when she was coming on to the Doctor.  I realise we’ve only known her for 5 episodes, but still: she seemed ‘nicer’ than that.

    1. Gerard McGarry

      Did she seem different though? She was a kissogram, so she’s no stranger to snogging. Most people are explaining this away as a post-trauma thing: she was isolated in a forest with deadly angels, then suddenly back in the comfort of her bedroom where she was in control.

      Totally unrelated, but do kissograms even exist anymore? I would have thought since lapdancing became commonplace, all the kissograms would have had to pack up and retire. And Amy – no offense to Miss Gillan – doesn’t have the equipment for lapdancing.

  7. Gerard McGarry

    I just wanted to update this thread.

    OK, if we assume that The Doctor did come back to visit Amy in the forest, will that be a theme of the series?

    Remember back in The eleventh Hour, when little Amelia packed her bags and waited outside for The Doctor to return? We heard a TARDIS engine and she looked up and smiled. But then confusingly the story emerged that The Doctor had seriously misjudged and returned 12 years later.

    What if the scene was real, that The Doctor is now going back and repairing the damage that he’s done to Amy? That would account for the strange scenes we’ve witnessed. And taking that conclusion a little further, has this got anything to do with repairing the cracks in the universe?

  8. Jeffrey Scott

    There truly is something fishy going on. What that might be, is still open for debate.

    I did notice the Doctor return to the younger Amy, so I guess it’s not that unrealistic for the Doctor to return to Amy in this story. I’ll have to keep my eyes open this next episode and see if they pull that again.

    1. Emperor Gregor

      If the Doctor returned to the younger Amy, how come Amy didn’t remember it. Unless, when she said it was 12 years ago, she means after his second visit.

      If the Doctor returned to the younger Amy it was after he had left so he wouldn’t be crossing his own time line. That’s a no no, isn’t it. But if he returned when Amy was in the Forest and the other Doctor was off rescuing people somewhere else that should be possible. Unless he’s fallen into the crack, causing the need for the Doctor to return during his disappearance, then the 2nd doctor jumps out of that time line as the first doctor returns …. my head hurts.

      And far too complicated to sort out during a drama, surely.

  9. jefft

    The later Doctor looks certain to be a Moffat-ism to me.

    Thats one good reason to have the jacket left behind. Notice that in Vampires of Venice he has it back without comment about where it came from.

    So far, SM has played timey-wimey with:

    Young Amelia and the TARDIS sound.

    Annette Crosbie’s character who has ‘Seen his face before’

    The Duck pond without any ducks. (both of these suggest he’s going back to the village at an earlier time)

    In Doctor Who Monthly mag, SM gave one clue which said ‘Ah but who SAID it was the second time?’ which I think relates to the meeting between Amy/kissogram and the Doc.

    This jacket. (and hang on.. the angels didnt have to touch skin in ‘Blink’…?)

     

    He doesnt say ‘you have to remember the exact words I said when you were 7’

    What he says is it doesnt matter: just that she remembers. Amy is forgetting things.. stuff is dropping out of the universe, and Amy may be the last person who remembers anything by that point.

    If she forgets, it’s gone for good?

     

     

  10. ajd

    I highly doubt that the jacket thing is a continutity error.

    The reason that he continues to wear his jacket after losing it without explanation is that he has more than one jacket. There is the original jacket that he wears most of the time, and there is a similar but check patterned jacket that he wore in episodes 3, 4 and 5 (Victory of the Daleks, The Time of Angels, Flesh and Stone). This means that he left his check patterned jacket with the angels and wears his stolen jacket in the episodes after this.

    When the future(?) Doctor is talking to Amy he is wearing the original jacket, which means it can’t possibly be a continuity error as that would mean that they made the massive mistake of giving Matt two different jackets for one episode. It just wouldn’t happen.

    Plus, in every episode the Doctor wears a gold watch, but the future(?) Doctor wears a black watch.

    1. Emperor Gregor

      A gold watch and a black watch? I must watch (ha ha) that episode again and go watch spotting.

      Someone somewhere has spotted that River and Amy wear the same type of wrist watch. Can’t be because they just issue a standard watch – you’ve just spotted the Doctor had two watches. 

      Unless the actors wear their own and Matt Smith has 2 watches (or got himself a new one during filming) while Amy and River both have similar looking ones.

      Interesting. I shall keep an eye on what he wears in future.

    2. sgreco1970

      well, now, a year after your post, we see it was indeed not a continuity error. Its neat to look back over this whole topic and see how on the mark everyone really was. However, if you want to talk continuity errors, notice in The Eleventh Hour that when Amy gves th doctor an apple to eat, its bright red but in the closeups as he eats it, its green!

  11. jefft

    I’ve just had my attention drawn to the clock in Amy’s bedroom.

    It ticks over from 11:59am on 25/6  to 12:00pm on 26/6

    Incredibly subtle, but that’s a whole 24hours vanished in a tick!!!!

    OMG.

     

    1. Gerard McGarry

      I’m getting a headache just thinking about that one! If that’s the kind of subtlety we’re up against, there should be a fair few surprises over the next couple of weeks!

      1. Emperor Gregor

        Well it’s season 7 coming up and the answers too, one hopes. I think there is a fair bit going to be revealed – we have a story arc lasting 2 whole series to wind up. Isn’t 26/6 supposed to be the most important date in the universe?

  12. Emperor Gregor

    River gave Amy the empty Tardis Diary and (as I’ve been reminded) the writing came back. But … we still have to get the Diary from Amy to River. It can’t be through the Doctor or River couldn’t claim it would contain “spoilers”. Presumably she got it passed down the family from Amy and/or Rory. So River could be Amy’s daughter or Granddaughter – making the Amy the Doctor’s mother in law or grandmotherly version!. 

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